CRYSTAL PALACE & NORWOOD CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
Link to application: Application no.10/ 02644/P
Notice of: Application for full planning permission
Address: 69-69A Westow Street, Upper Norwood, London, SE19 3RW (The Assembly Rooms)
Description: Demolition of the existing building; erection of a part two/three storey building with basement level for use as a community and cultural centre; provision of 2 one bedroom flats on the second floor
Name of Applicant: The Chairman of Trustees
“The new application for redevelopment is being considered on its planning merits and in particular whether the proposal would preserve or enhance the character and appearance of the conservation area.”
We object to the application to demolish being co-joined to the application to build as we feel the future of the present building should be considered separately from the merits of the proposed development. We ask the council to respect the conservation area status and consider the visual, historical and business importance of the present building regardless of the quality of the proposed new development and before deciding to end its long and interesting history
We also feel that all the objections received against the previous application for demolition should be included in this application as nothing has changed with regard to the demolition and the views expressed remain relevant.
PLEASE NOTE THAT:
THIS BUILDING PRE-DATES THE CRYSTAL PALACE
Historical importance
Snug between the Greek Orthodox Church and the White Hart, The Assembly Rooms building is a little local gem. Contrary to the applicant’s heritage report, the Assembly Rooms building was built in 1830 as dining rooms and the building is the oldest in the Triangle.
It was built as part of the original White Hart pub that boasted wonderful tea gardens that people entered through the huge jaws of a whale. In the gardens people could play on the bowling green or buy fresh water from the well. It was a very lively and popular local haunt but when the world famous Crystal Palace arrived with its magnificent facilities, the tea gardens were sold off. Later when the attractive timber clad PUB (The White Hart) was replaced with the building we see today, the Assembly Rooms survived unharmed.
Although the applicant’s heritage report will try to convince you otherwise, the Assembly Rooms IS the last remaining vestige of the original pub and the only local example of a timber clad building.
Businesses working with the council on conservation
Though run down, sad and neglected, local residents and traders alike have taken this small part of their history to their hearts. They have already shown their passionate desire to protect this building through surveys and responses to the previous application which the council was persuaded to turn down. It would be a travesty if the council now cites the bad condition of the building as grounds to allow demolition when it was the council who failed to ensure that the owners kept the building in a state fit for a conservation area.
The Chamber works with council to promote heritage in the area.
The Triangle is a conservation area governed by the council’s stated intention to;
“preserve and enhance the character of the area by the retention of buildings and trees, which are important to the character and visual importance of the area’.
The Chamber has been working with the council and local businesses to promote the importance and value of adhering to the council guidelines and regulations regarding the conservation area. It is disappointing therefore that this is the second time we have found ourselves fighting to save such a visually important part of that conservation area. If indeed the council wishes us to continue our work to promote and highlight the heritage aspect of the area, we must ask them to recognise that this building is a vitally important to the conservation area streetscene and an irreplaceable link to the area’s past.
Visual importance
This building’s visual contribution to the area is especially apparent from the rear (Church Road) where the white timber clad walls provide a very attractive backdrop to the White Hart garden. It will severely impact on the charm and thereby possibly the business of the pub if such a visually dynamic feature is replaced with an intrusive modern building. It would not be pleasant to sit in this popular garden if it was overlooked by a block of flats.
Best heritage vista in the Triangle
Although the church trustees have allowed it to become sad and neglected, the Assembly Rooms white timber clad walls in front of the church spire still offers what is, without doubt, the best heritage based vista in the Triangle. It connects us to our past in a way that no history book ever could.
Customer attraction
The trading community recognises that the heritage features of the Triangle draw customers to the town. Customers and visitors come to enjoy the remnants of the area’s glorious past. Slowly but surely we are losing all the buildings that give an insight into that past. Visually, the Assembly Rooms building is probably the most important and vital building in the Triangle. It adds enormous character and interest to the conservation area. There are very few buildings left that were in the area before the Crystal Palace and this is one of them. We want it to be at worst protected and at best, incorporated sensitively into a new development.
Wrong message to send out to businesses
Traders are rightly being ordered to suffer the cost of replacing newly installed metal-framed windows and unsuitable signs with those more appropriate to a conservation. It is therefore hard for them to understand why the council have not managed to treat the applicants in the same way and why they have not instructed them to at least protect the building from further decay. When permission to demolish was denied we were lead to believe that the council would be following up their decision by asking the owners to protect the building from the weather. We feel disappointed and let down that this never happened.
If the council allows this important part of our heritage to be lost forever, our members will understandably feel that the council is not supporting them in their struggle to make Crystal Palace a dynamic business district. If the council really does respect our business community, our heritage and our conservation area, allowing the oldest, best-loved and most important heritage building in the area to be lost to the town forever is probably not the best way of showing it.
It upsets people on a daily basis to see the Assembly Rooms slowly disintegrate before their eyes. We suspect that demolition of such a building would not be allowed in Richmond or Kew. We have often witnessed ruins of interesting old buildings or walls in town centres when they are no longer fit for purpose. The Assembly Rooms could be made safe and left as a feature of the town’s historic past.
The Core Strategy has already identified Crystal Palace as having a
HERITAGE/music/retro focus.
How will anyone take the core strategy seriously if the oldest building in the conservation area is allowed to be lost to us forever?
The church blames neglect on poverty
A relatively small amount of money was needed to keep the building protected. The church pleads poverty as the reason for the building’s neglect but in fact the church received thousands of pounds (something in the order of £18,000) from the Single Regeneration Bid under the town regeneration / one way system budget. It would have taken very little of that money to replace the weatherboards in the windows and repair the roof and cracks to front corner of building.
The dreadful dilapidation of the building has occurred whilst in the care of the church and the fact that it has deteriorated so quickly is the result of the owner’s neglect. Dialogue with the priest has been very disappointing. His stance is simple; his care is solely for his church community. He is adamant that the building will be demolished and the redevelopment will happen. He argues that the building was beyond repair when the church took it over. In fact, this is untrue. It can be seen from pictures below (note date of 2005 on the first picture) that the building was actually still glazed just five years ago!
Demolition previously granted
A further concern is that because the council had in the past granted permission to demolish the building they may feel that they could again. Priorities and attitudes have changed over the last ten years. Just as trees and green land have become more valued, so there is a greater desire to protect our heritage from those wanting to profit from its demise. So much of our heritage is being eroded that buildings like this have taken on greater importance. This was recognised recently by the council when they refused permission to demolish.
English Heritage
As English Heritage is inundated with applications their criteria is extremely high. Many buildings of interest do not make it onto their listings. For example the magnificent interior of the Bingo Hall did not get listing from EH. Often it is local people who really know the value of local buildings to the street scene, interest and vitality of the area. This building has been given local listing so we trust that this will afford it strong protection from the council who listed it.
Loss of parking
We don’t feel the proposal will noticeably benefit the local community, as the proposed community centre will only be for the Greek community many of who travel to the area. In fact it will adversely affect the local community as the approx seven car parking spaces presently available on the site will not be available under the new proposal forcing those cars to use the community’s already stretched parking spaces. The applicants assert that drivers will park in Sainsbury’s car park but experience has shown that in fact they will use every available on street customer parking bay first.
Conflicting information
The heritage report commissioned by the applicant states that we may not be able to claim that the building dates back to 1830 as it has changed so much. Judging from the photos below, we do not believe this to be the case. (Assembly Rooms seen far left of the photo)
The message we want to hear from the council is;
- That they take conservation area status very seriously and we will come down hard on those who do not respect the principles and rules of the conservation area.
- That they will not reward those property owners who resort to encouraging properties to fall into fatal disrepair in order to get permission to demolish.
- That erring owners will be made to bring the property up to a standard deemed suitable for a conservation area.
- That if owners do not comply, the council will issue a compulsory improvement order on the building or instruct the owners to a) make it safe and attractive b) arrange for the building to be taken down and reconstructed. c) Incorporate the building sensitively in a new development.
A sensible way forward
If our local traders install windows or security shutters that are inappropriate in a conservation area, the council rightly make them replace them at their own expense. The council refused to grant the Greek church permission to demolish the Assembly Rooms so if the owner then allowed the building to fall into such a state of disrepair that the only option is to demolish it then we feel they should not be rewarded with planning permission, they should be made to take it down and reconstruct it in good safe order.
OUR SUGGESTION:
We suggest that the Greek Church take down and reconstruct the building using broadly the same materials and design. One or two flats could be incorporated into the upper part of the new building and the community Hall on the ground floor or in the basement. If the rebuild is not big enough for two flats, the applicants could continue to use their existing community hall and use the entire new building for residential. Alternatively they could sensitively incorporate the old building into a new development. If neither suggestion is possible, we would hope that the building can be made safe and sound and preserved as a local monument,
This plan would satisfy the needs and wishes of the local and the Greek communities, whilst paying due respect to the conservation area, and retaining the parking currently available for the church.
IS THE ASSEMBLY ROOMS WORTH SAVING ?
YES!!!
We believe it must be saved for the reasons below;
- Built in 1830, it is one of the oldest local buildings. It pre dates the Crystal Palace
- It is locally listed
- It is the only local example of a timber clad building
- It is loved by the local population
- It offers the best heritage vista in the Triangle
- It is visually important to the historic street scene that attracts customers and visitors to Crystal Palace
- It impacts visually and structurally on the neighbouring businesses
Please save the Assembly Rooms for the good of our trading centre, our members and future generations
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Comments
Really, any evidence to back this up? During service times surrounding businesses suffer because parking spaces are utilised by congregants who when the service is over go direct to their vehicles and drive home.
Quoting peter Androu:
That permission was years ago and had expired. Planning law has changed since then as has the imnportance of the conservation area status.
Quoting peter Androu:
Yes you do. As responsible owners of the oldest building in the conservation area you are obliged to maintain and preserve the that buliding. The Assembly Rooms are an important part of this areas rich architectural hertitage.
.The church is a registered charity.
The income of the church is given by it's numbers,
That live in and around the croydon area.
We also support the shops in the area.
We acquired this building to knock it down and rebuild
Not to preserve it.
and we got planning permission to do just that.
We did not have enough money to build at the time .
We have no reason to prop up a building that
was going to be knock down.
And In my opinion is a horrible looking building.
If anything it brings the area down.
And if we don't care about the area why did we spend thousands of
pounds of our money to cleaning the stones of the church inside and out.
As for being greed I don't understand where that comes from ?
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